Feel free to convince me to take care of myself for health reasons, but don't even think about discriminating against me for being overweight.

"Fat people" don't need a wake-up call. Both physical and mental health issues accompany obesity, and the people who have them are generally aware of them. I'm obese at a paltry 21 years of age, yet I frequently notice back and knee pain along with self confidence issues and the threat of depression.

I'm 5'10" at 265 lbs, and, believe me, I work hard to keep my weight at or (preferably) below it's current level.

Hey Mike, sure, but wouldn't you feel more stimulated if there were more incentives around?If people would be penalized for being overwheight, they would do more efforts to lose weight.All research shows that you can't change the mind of the people with mere "prevention" and marketing (advertisements, etc...); you need to target them in their wallet.

The same is true for anti-smoking campaigns.

I travel a lot on busses and commuter trains, and I frequently run into the problem that a person will sit in the seat next to me who is so large that they take up my seat and part of their seat as well. I'm generally a very live and let live person but this really bothers me. Both myself and the other person paid for one seat, yet I end up with half a seat. When this happens it generally constrains my movement (I can't read without poking the other person) and the other person ends up inadvertantly touching me and invading my personal space. (This is getting a bit intimate with a stranger if you ask me). The other day I was sitting next to one such lady who proceeded to stand up, bend over and stick her ass in my face. I had to lean back untill I was completely plastered to the wall just to avoid getting it in the face. I'm not myself thin, I'm not asking everyone to be... but I think it would be nice if people could be conscious of the space they take up and if they take up two spaces, pay for two spaces.

Hey shona.

No, I wouldn't feel more stimulated. I'd feel severly put out for being penalized for something I'm already doing my darndest to control. And so would anyone who already works hard to control their weight.

The only thing I haven't tried yet are weight control medications; I was raised to only take medications if absolutely necessary. But I'm approaching the point where that may be my only option.

yes! yes! yes! here's another thought; how about pricing everything that goes on planes by the weight? overpackers would hate me, but the idea is like this; if you and your luggage weigh the already alloted weight per head then your ticket price would not be affected; if you are heavy, but pack light; no change either. If you are heavy and pack heavy; double the punishment, if you are light and pack light (think: executive travel); double the rewards.

Even though I'm someone in the so-called "Normal" range of body mass, I have to second Mike's comments, although I'm all for ending the obesity epidemic. The core causes of the epidemic are just not things that additional "incentives" are likely to change. And many if not most of the people who are obese are that way for genetic reasons, so how is that fair?! And how is it not fair to charge for heavier luggage--come on, most of us have much more control over how much we pack into our luggage than our BMI!

Listen carefully: No one who is overweight wants to be overweight. People who smoke often have many reasons to want to smoke, from social reasons to the high of nicotene to wanting to lose weight. That's why you need more than an advertising campaign to stop people from wanting to smoke. To repeat, no one wants to be overweight. So how will incentives help?

Many people decide to live with their bodies, but that's not the same thing as wanting. How many diets do you think the average overweight person has tried? Do you think that it's just will power? Studies have shown that most diets cause people to, in the long run, gain weight (by putting their bodies into starvation mode and decreasing their basal metabolic rate). You can't just add "incentives" and expect people to decide to lose weight. It's not a "fad" to be obese that people can just decide to change. You want to hit people in their wallet? Guess what clothing for obese people costs? How about extemely obese people who buy TWO PLANE TICKETS. That enough of a wallet hit?

Here are a few links to ponder:

Fat Liberation and World Hunger

The Packing Book--see, you can pack lighter!

Diets Don't Work.

NAAFA--a group that tries to help fight this kind of talk, i.e., obesity discrimination.

--Timrealmensch.blogspot.com

As a formerly very athletic and in shape person, now very obese, I have to say that I support the general idea - but not the suggested implementation mentioned here.

BMI has nothing to do with how well you fit in an airline seat. It only indicates how overweight you are for your height. You can be tall and average weight and be too big for the seat, just like you can be very obese for your very short height and fit in the seat just fine.

But attaching it directly to BMI, you're just unfairly penalizing people for being at an unhealthy weight, without regard to how it affects the space they take up on the airplane.

The more sensible way to charge people is to measure them the same way you measure carry-on baggage. Before you can take a carry-on with you, you have to set it into a frame that replicates the size restrictions of the actual carry-on portion of the airplane. There should be one for a seat, too. There should be a test seat with an adjustable width. If, when you sit in it, the arms stretch a certain amount beyond the actual width of the seats on the plane, then you have to pay for a second seat. Simple enough. If it's good enough for our luggage, it should be good enough for us.

No need to weigh anyone. No need to do a BMI test. No need to insult anyone. Just have a seat up front at the ticket agent. If you fit, great. If you don't, you buy a second seat.

Also, as an extremely obese man, I feel that people who take up more space should pay more. Why shouldn't we? If you can't get a 10lb price from UPS when you ship a 50lb package. Or even better, rather than buying two seats, just buy one first class seat and have all the space you need. Whenever I fly (which is often), I pay for a first class seat, because I know that others and myself will be uncomfortable if I have to be crammed into a small seat.

This just seems like common sense. Who cares if you're fat? You can lose it if you want. Or don't lose it. I don't really care. If you are fine with your weight - more power to you. But the fact still remains that if you take up more than one seat, you should pay for more than one seat. It's absurd that there is even an argument about it.

April:My BMI is 21. I weigh myself. If my body weight increased by more than 5 lbs by the end of the day, I won't eat for the next 3.

That sounds like a fairly unhealthy obsession with your weight. And I won't even ponder how a person could gain 5lbs in one day. While I have little sympathy for most obese people (including myself), there is a bit more to it than just telling an anorexic to "just eat more".

I flew coach in early October. The individual seats were separated by immovable armrests. So, at least on those plane models, buying multiple seats isn't an option. The armrests ensure you fit into the seat you paid for.

Also, requiring on-site seating area checks would make purchasing tickets online useless. Someone could buy a ticket online, fail the seating test, and then discover there are no more available seats next to him, in his row, or even on the plane.

I totally agree with Shona. Overweight people should pay more for airline tickets. They take up more space and use more fuel to take off. Plus, they inconvience everyone around them.

I just recently had an experience where a 400+ lb man got on the plane and the airline had to remove 4 passengers to take off because of him. HOW SELFISH! It cost the airline $1200 to compensate those people PLUS he took up 2 seats. Now you can't tell me that kind of stuff isn't driving up ticket prices.

I know no one wants to be obese, but in most cases the FAT person can do something about it. Weight management is essential in America with our horrible diets. My BMI is 21. Every morning I weigh myself. If my body weight increased by more than 5 lbs by the end of the day, I won't eat for the next 3. We kept no pre-packaged foods or bad foods in the house. Everything is prepared fresh. Fat people have no excuse. The solution is simple....STOP EATING. Its not that hard.

I totally agree with Shona. Overweight people should pay more for airline tickets. They take up more space and use more fuel to take off. Plus, they inconvience everyone around them.

I just recently had an experience where a 400+ lb man got on the plane and the airline had to remove 4 passengers to take off because of him. HOW SELFISH! It cost the airline $1200 to compensate those people PLUS he took up 2 seats. Now you can't tell me that kind of stuff isn't driving up ticket prices.

I know no one wants to be obese, but in most cases the FAT person can do something about it. Weight management is essential in America with our horrible diets. My BMI is 21. Every morning I weigh myself. If my body weight increased by more than 5 lbs by the end of the day, I won't eat for the next 3. We kept no pre-packaged foods or bad foods in the house. Everything is prepared fresh. Fat people have no excuse. The solution is simple....STOP EATING. Its not that hard.

I DO NOT agree with shona AT ALL. It is not fair for overweight people to have to pay more for their tickets, they are human just like the rest of us "normal" people. You say the people don't care how fat they are, but have you ever realized that they may have a HEALTH CONDITION that they couldn't control. And even if they didn't, VERY RARELY do they not care about their weight. Most of the time, they ARE trying to control their weight to. Your idea is just selfish and discriminating to people who fall in the "overweight" category.

And your idea does not solve the problem of rising oil and ticket prices in a fair way. Another way could be for the airline companies to make like two rows of slightly larger seats, and on the internet the people could request one of the seats if they apply.

islesurfer01,

I feel the opposite. The airlines are running a business. Heavily obese individuals cost them far more money.

Like what an earlier comment said, one indiviual required the removal of four others, actually sitting in two seats. He or She is costing more resources.

Sure, they might have a problem. But for heaven's sake, put DOWN the third chicken at the meal! Get help. People that obese are treated all the time, often loosing hundreds of pounds.

Disability laws only require "reasonable" accomodations. Courts have determined that it's beyond reason to require an airline to give an excessivly fat passanger two seats. So it's reasonable for them to charge him for two seats before letting him take the flight.

When obesity treatments are covered under my insurance, sure, I'll get treatment. I've tried dieting and exercise, and it won't work for me.

I don't have the time to cook something healthy, and I don't have the time to go to the gym regularly. Taking the stairs instead of the elevator is all I can manage, and even that puts a strain on my schedule as I run from work to class to class to work to class. And starving myself is the only dieting approach I have time for, and anyone will tell you it's not healthy.

Believe me, I'd like to eat something other than a couple double-cheeseburgers every day, and I actually like the in-shape feeling that exercising gave me back when I had time. Heck, I even enjoy excercising.

You might try walking in an obese person's shoes before you suggest dumping your problem (airline ticket prices) on them. You might find their shoes are a few sizes too big.

So, essentially, many of you are saying: An obese person is not obese due to their own fault, so they shouldn't be charged extra, although they incur extra costs to the airline carrier.

Now, let's apply that idea to several other life situations:

1. An obese person with a thick neck comes to a jewelry store. They want to buy a golden chainlet. Golden chainlet that suits them takes twice as much gold to make than an average chain. However, they should be charged the same, because it's not their fault that their neck is thick.

2. If I have a factory manufacturing office chairs, I cannot charge more for a chair that is strong enough to hold a 400 pound person, than what I charge for a chair that can hold only 200 pound person, simply because that is discirimination.

3. My shoe size is 12. My friend's shoe size is 8. My shoes should cost the same as his, although they take approximately 50% more material to make, because it's not my fault that I have big feet.

4. Smoking should be allowed everywhere, because most smokers are genetically predisposed to be more amenable to addictions than an average person, or their life circumstances were such that they were in positions with lots of stress and pressure, where it was hard to resist starting smoking. Hence, at least for some of them, it is not their fault that they can't live without smoking, and banning smoking in a workplace or an airplane is discriminatory against them. The same argument can be applied to marijuana and drugs.

5. NASA should accept candidates of any weight and size into their training, because nobody chooses their weight or height when they are born. The fact that the cost of the space programs would increase is irrelevant. What matters is that there is no discrimination based on factors people cannot influence.

Finally:

6. People with heart conditions should be allowed to be pilots in civil and military airplanes, because they didn't choose to have a heart condition in the first place, so they cannot be blamed for having that condition. The fact that some of them will occasionally die and jeopardize the security of the flight is not important, because we will be living in the society that is just and non-discriminatory, and everyone will gladly accept the death of their family members if that ensures equality for everyone. After all, it is a small price to pay.

MikeMol, you might want to check out your insurance a bit closer. Odds are that they have at least some circumstances where they'll pay for treatment. Heck, sometimes you can even work with your agent.

Why would they? Because it saves them money in the long run. As a seriously obese individual, you're far more likely to suffer from a long list of health problems. By getting your weight down, you're less likely to need even more medical treatment.

Airlines, if they're not going to charge by the seat, should charge by the pound.

Sorry Mike, you're fighting a losing battle here...

You said: "Believe me, I'd like to eat something other than a couple double-cheeseburgers every day..." Where is it that you live that your local double-cheeseburger joint doesn't offer a veggie burger, a salad or at least a chicken sandwich. Any would be more healthy and allow you to lose weight. Even McDonald's now has healthy alternatives!

The way I see this, there are certainly some people who litterally can't control their weight due to gland problems. However, the vast majority probably can, even if they think they can't.

I think that the scope of the discussion should be limited to a question of obese passengers, not just overweight ones. Society has accepted that not everything has to have its cost tied directly to the amount of resources it uses. You don't pay more for a large shirt than a small shirt at the gap, even though the large uses more material. You pay the same fare on the subway whether you are going one stop or 5. I think society seems to have agreed that in the end, these small differences average out. So, I'm against any sort of weigh-in at the ticket counter to index your ticket price directly to your weight or BMI.

That being said, obese people are an extreme. If it reaches the point where your size is actually affecting the comfort of my trip, of course you need to buy two seats.

No matter what side of this argument you take, someone is going to be inconvenienced. Either obese people are punished by buying two seats, or average-weight people get punished by having to deal with half a seat because an overweight person is spilling into their space. It's a lose/lose situation, so why the presumption that that skinny people are the ones that have to lose? Is it because it's not the obese-people's fault that they are obese? Well it's not our fault either, so why should we have to pay? If I'm stuck in a seat with an obese person's fat spilling into my lap, there's at least a chance he could do something about it. There's certainly no chance that I could.

i'm super skinny and i agree with the person who said they didn't want to be penalized for something they're trying to control... never been overweight, but I can't say I like the idea... could be embarassing...

BMI is not an ideal judgement. It actually only works if you are 5'10" tall.

Imagine a sugar cube. If you double its height to keep it in proportion you need to double its width and length. So it now weighs 8 imes as much.

As you move away from 5'10" the table and calculation become increasingly more inaccurate.

A top level American football team would all be classed as clinically obese.Similarly, anyone short would be classed as underweight.

Far better to use hip width to circumference ratio. But if we want to pay proportionally, why not just make it on weight alone? Children would cost less and Big fat guys cost more?. Increase in mass would mean increase in fuel so it should cost more.