WhyNot?

propulsion w/o mass ejection

Category: Inventing
Responses: 3 (2 in support, 0 neutral, 1 in opposition)
Number of views: 572
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Just an idea :/ whad do ya think?Basically you would need to manipulate or modulate mass. 'Throw' a mass while it is heavy. Then make it light and 'catch' it. I thought of two ways. Well antimatter-matter formation and annilation would be a third way..

1. binding mass: shove elements down, form molecule, pull them up. would probably have to happen billions of times per second to even start to be useful.

2. relatavistic mass: two heavy particle accelerators, in ring shape, going in opposite directions.

sloth1, Mar 25 2009

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Comments from other members:

Add your comment

So, you want to accelerate a certain mass in one direction, then reduce its mass and accelerate it the opposite direction, then repeat. I don't see how this could happen. Anything you do to reduce the mass of an object is going to involve getting rid of some of the matter. If you don't accelerate all of the matter back the other way, you will lose mass permanently from the system, like any other rocket.

Forming or breaking down molecules won't change the overall mass. All the atoms accelerated in one direction will have to be sent back the other way in order to repeat the cycle.

I don't understand what the particle accelerators are suppose to do to achieve your goal.

Anti-matter requires ridiculous amounts of energy to create, but even if we ingore that, I don't think this would do what you are wanting it to do even in theory. However, this is beyond my expertise, so I could be wrong.

Dwane Anderson, Mar 25 2009

Hi! I'm pretending that energy is of no concern, i.e. I have lots of it onboard. Or maybe I have really good solar panels. And I want to get around without throwing mass behind me. This is just in theory. I realize practicality is a whole other matter. I just want to know if there is another way to get around besides spewing mass or falling with gravity. Solar sails would count I guess.

1. Do you know what binding energy/mass is? OR am I a complete moron.?? ;)

2. Similar mechanism but the goal here is to approach the speed of light. Two masses going in opposite directions will seem more massive to each other..

sloth1, Mar 25 2009

anyway it would be highly impractical weak and slow, if possible.

sloth1, Mar 25 2009

Think of the most inherent, basic, and (as far as we know) unbreakable law of physics; the conservation of mass-energy. this idea can not work under any circumstance.

drewnahant, Mar 26 2009

oh ok.

sloth1, Mar 26 2009

You cannot disregard the energy used by the system because energy=mass. If you eject energy, you are ejecting mass.

1. I am not a physicist, but as I understand it, when elements or molecules combine to form lower energy molecules, they lose a certain amount of energy(binding energy). This energy corresponds to a certain amount of mass (E=mc2). However, to close the system, you would have to move the released energy/mass back to the starting point also. If you just release the energy from the system, then you are ejecting the mass that that energy equals, which is what you are trying to avoid.

2. This is way over my head, but I don't see why making the particles more massive relative to each other would make them more massive relative to your craft. I would think that, relative to the accelerator, their masses would only change as they are accelerated. I would expect the mass changes due to acceleration and velocity to balance out, but what do I know?

Dwane Anderson, Mar 26 2009

Very good description... /sarcasm

seawolfxix, Apr 27 2009

We use the change of relative weight of particles to propel aircraft upward already. I'm talking about hot air balloons. hot air rises and cold air falls. But also other things that rise and fall are air and water in thunderclouds, but the side effects of all this friction is lightning. You can also use this principle in sterling engines. But this is only current proven technology, not anything new and theoretical.

artZ, Apr 30 2009

Hello,I have a concept not sure if the possibility is promising but if you can invent a magnetic polarity generator and can produce the same magnetic polarity of this earth then by same polarity enables you to float and the stronger you can generate it the higher or elevation you can accomplish.But if you can invent this generator you get my vote for you as the "MAN".

Butterfly, May 31 2009