It has been recently proposed that abandoned mine shafts be used as a source of geothermal energy as it has no negative ecological side effects and requires nothing except the original investment in structure to obtain a source of steady energy. (see http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/07/090727081108.htm). The concept seems reasonable but perhaps it could be extended. The dangers in mining usually involve digging into underground areas where the terrain is unstable to get at the ore but a permanent underground structure could ensure, in an earthquake free area, a reasonable stability for permanent inhabitation. The more or less free energy source could provide power for heating, electricity, and perhaps even a source of underground water to be cleaned and made useful for general community use. As the population grew it should be easily possible to either move into unoccupied mine areas or initiate new subterranean structures with minimum problems of interfering with surface land use.
The problem of claustrophobia may arise but the new technologies of large screens could provide varying surface views to provide a congenial psychological environment. Surface weather conditions would provide minimum problems if at all and the wear and tear that surface conditions impose on materials would be kept at a minimum.
If nothing else it could provide a laboratory for large scale inhabitation of the Moon which may be a likelihood in the latter part of this century. If there is sufficient free power it might be possible to establish artificially lit underground farms and, considering that all conditions would be tightly controlled with no problems from insects and weeds and inclement weather they might work out to be economically quite successful.
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Sand, I'm rather partial to this idea, as I've dreamed of a similar idea for many years. Rather than abandoned mines, I imagined that subway systems would be the natural starting point for underground cities to grow from. First, there would be stores built in subway terminals to sell to people using the trains. These would grow into malls, with restaurants, shops and amusements. Eventually, housing would be built for the employees in the malls, creating complete underground communities.
I also imagined that the technology would be applicable to colonies on the Moon, Mars and asteroids. Underground communities are especially sensible on the Moon, as it provides natural protection from radiation and micrometeorites. It also reduces the amount of construction material that must be delivered from Earth.
I also pondered some of the same ideas about subterranean farming. We must have read some of the same books or something!
Mad mad mad ... but cool though!
I have read nothing about this but it seems to me that some of the advantages are obvious and the idea of the mines brings in an ecologically positive source of energy. I have heard that the huge underground defense command center in the US west in a hollowed mountain might be abandoned and that could be a good starting point. But, if nothing else, it could permit the surface ecology to recuperate from mankind's destruction and the concept of habitations under wonderful natural forests which would permit humans to enjoy undisturbed nature is tempting.
Incidentally, insofar as the subway concept is concerned, it seems to me impractical under central large metropolitan areas as the construction costs would be huge and the disruption of the city probably would be unacceptable but at the far ends of the subways such as in Helsinki where I live or in New York where I used to live, the convenience of being situated right on the transportation to the active centers would have possibilities and, of course, at end, they might become active centers themselves.
Hello Sand, If I may suggest concerning growing population,I'm thinking of multilevel Cities on which can be by concept approach by building a pyramid structured and a square in the middle that can allow sunlight for the inner sides of the building.As for example,if you were to line up four of this pyramids,this will allow us to link them by a bridge. The reason as to why pyramids is because this allows more space and sunlight between from each other.But we are talking huge pyramid to attain the concept for multilevel cities.
A pyramid city as you describe it is a totally different concept and although it is innovative it has the disadvantage of needing conventional power input and being subject to weather concerns. I am not an architect so I don't know what the relationships of public space, service space and private space might be so I cannot really comment.
Sand, building under metropolitan areas might be more expensive, but it would be well worth it. Realestate in downtown areas is the most valuable in the world. Tunneling would provide new unoccupied realestate in the most profitable places on Earth. It wouldn't have to cause much disruption either. All the dirt and building materials could be moved in and out using subway trains. Not the regular passenger trains of course, but dedicated cargo trains. The biggest problem would be working around the extensive underground infrastructure under the cities. They may have to reroute some cables and pipes, but disruptions in services are common during construction projects in cities.
Hello Sand my apologies,I am not trying to prove that your Idea is not great,in fact I am a bit far of from your concept and I am just pitching what came in mind during my inquiry to your proposed concept. Some times as your aware about my insight can be a bit far out, it's just my contribution on population concerns.With regards on space,what I'm trying to say is that as it tapers towards the top,this allows more air space between pyramids and this also allows more sunlight exposure between each other, to make a long story short this is more syfy in a way because not even by a long shot that this ever going to happened. Thanx for keeping your kool.
There was nothing offensive in your contribution, it was just very different. Nevertheless it brought to mind those huge openface mines that create huge hollows in the earth and it occurred to me that if one is abandoned it might be possible to create a negative pyramidal hollow out of one with the surface glassed in with habitations within the earth facing the open space. That way heat could be mined as in my original proposal but the concept is much less claustrophobic since windows would face the exterior all the way down and aside from habitation the light could make huge underground greenhouses for agriculture. A weird concept but interesting. Since there might be a tendency for the lower part of the hollow to fill with water it could form a natural reservoir and even have windows under the water for rooms or habitations with interesting effects.
Hello Sand, Kool !!!! Whats normal anyway !!!, maybe we can also adapt on how those ants design there underground empire, U think !!!
1. The moon doesn't have geothermal heat because its core is dead.2. Getting deep enough into the earth for the heat to kick in is the expensive part then excavating one living area at a time off of the original shaft is the cheap part. So on a industrial scale this would become affordable housing.3. What about earth quakes? It may just be easily solved by living in a non-earthquake prone area. 4. What about cave-in's?5. If you go deep enough water boils and becomes steam. So if you pipe the steam to above the living areas you have constant fresh water and water pressure. This steam power could also produce electricity.6. You'd want to be at the perfect depth to always be a constant comfortable 70 degrees.7. Transporting excess material out of the mine shaft will require a lot of energy and work and complex machinery, let alone blasting the material out of the rock in the first place. So this is something left to people like Donald trump to do, unless you actually can buy a defunct abandoned mine.
I'm sorry I missed this one when it first came up. I think this is a really interesting idea and yes, it should be tried. I think sand's been reading his Heinlein again. But also, having recently read 'Rocket Boys' about the people in the movie "October Sky" I realize that mines fill with water and require electric fans to ventilate natural methane. Possibly a less-deep underground living environment, but then you don't get your 70 F. Anyway, problems to be solved.
Also underground living harbors other dangers, eg. explosions, fires that use up your oxygen, dirt.
Ironically, sand's only listed objection--claustrophobia--seems to me to be proved not important by we engineers that live in cubicles with no windows in sight for ten hours a day. Then I get home and to get my kids outside, I literally have to order them away from the computers. I don't think claustrophobia would really be a problem.
So who do we get to try this?