Great idea if electric cars become common.

http://www.whynot.net/ideas/3995

http://www.whynot.net/ideas/431

This idea has a lot of supporters. The company most famous for promoting and developing this concept is Better Place. They're currently promoting a new car by Renault called the Fluence Z.E. which is designed to use their system. They're currently setting up their first network in Israel. They're also planning to set one up in Hawaii.

Personally, I don't see any serious problem with just charging up your battery. The problem I see with swapping is that you don't know if the battery you're getting is as good as the one you're trading in. If you just bought a brand new car with the latest and greatest high-tech battery, would you want to swap it and possibly get an old worn out battery in its place? When new technology comes out, will Better Place replace all of the obsolete batteries, or will you be stuck with whatever they have?

I don't know, maybe it will work out. We'll just have to wait and see what happens.

Thanks hrench for showing how much a low life you are yet again. Keep following me around. Hopefully I get to meet you in person some day and slap the dumb off your face.

Dwane yeah changing batteries would require a little bit of trust, but what doesn't. Hopefully customers care more about getting the power than whos batter. I agree that battery technology is still advancing quickly so we'd need to stay on top of things... or rather the battery companies would. It would be worth it financially for the battery/gas company to stay up to date with current technology. Lithium Lead Phosphate would be a good place to start.

Sorry hrench maybe you didn't deserve that on this post, but you deserve it for what you said on other posts.

Also I probably thought of this idea first because I've been telling everyone I know about it since I was a teenager over 10 years ago. I know nothing makes you happier than trying to prove other people wrong like what you try to say about the gravity train (and you are wrong: try it) but you don't have to get angry at me for your poor life circumstances. Try and use this website for good and positive things not criticism of some of the best, and most honest ideas and work we have in our world. Please.

Dwane, I think the trick to this idea working would be that the gas station would have to actually own and service the batteries and your payment would amount to rental of them. Sort of like phones in the ATT days.

I agree with hrench on that point.

I have heard of the concept before. One fix for the battery quality situation is that the car owner owns just the car, the battery is owned by the battery company and leased from them. That is how the Nissan Leaf works.

The real problem is of standards amongst vehicle manufacturers s only one battery format is needed, and the chicken/egg problem of charging stations (but I guess that was there with the advent of gasoline powered conveyances, and look at how gasoline filling stations popped up the first part of last century).

Yes, Better Place plans to rent or lease the batteries to the customers. But this doesn't really avoid the problems I mentioned. It would be up to the company to decide when to replace old or obsolete batteries. Replacing old batteries is expensive and that expense will have to be passed on to the customers for the company to make money. If they (the company) replace the batteries often, it will cost more for the customers. It would save the customers money if the company keeps reusing the old batteries as long as possible. But then the customers who would rather spend more to get a more up-to-date battery will be stuck having to use old ones. Maybe they could keep new and old ones in stock and provide what the customer wants and charge an extra premium for customers who request newer batteries. But that would make running the swap operation that much more complicated and would still add to costs.

I expect Better Place will try to find a reasonable compromise, but it will be hard to make everyone happy.

Yes it would take a leap of faith by the business owner and the customer, but all good things start with an act of faith and determination. Also once there is more nuclear energy and alternative power sources like wind and energy electricity will be the power of choice and this idea is a way to solve that logistically. I'd be willing to put my time and effort into anybody willing to work on this idea.

@classicsat yeah if you look at how much effort was put into gasoline standards you can compare that to how much effort needs to go into battery standards although honestly I don't think it requires as much effort due to the vast infrastructure we have already. For a start up company sure it would be tough, but if you were say Shell and wanted to get out of gasoline before it dried up you could start on it immediately. Ask the electric car companies to dinner, ask them what voltage they would like to use and size and 6 months later you have battery swapping stations all over the country. At first they would be a machine in the back gathering dust most of the time, but as time went on more and more people would use them and they would account for more and more of each station's business. Subscriptions to shell electric could be yearly and per charge or just per charge.

just curious, how much do you plan to charge? gs is by the gallon, but batteries...that just doesn't work.

typo, that was supposed to be gas.

79.95 dollars a month for unlimited changing on a small to medium sized car. (199 dollar deposit)*

99.95 dollars a month for a large car. (199 dollar deposit)*

9.95 per swap on medium sized battery. (299 dollar deposit)*

*Minimum subscription 1 year. The batteries remain the property of the company and can be recycled or reused at the end of the year.

If people pay the deposit and run off it gets noted of course on their account. If they have a legitimate reason than it won't count against them in the future.

If one battery can stay in service for 2 years then the company has received 2500 dollars from the customer and they still have the battery which might may be refurbished or sold for a possible 800 dollar salvage (for the sake of argument). That would be 3300 dollars to spend on a new battery and for profit. In bulk these batteries are probably about 1800 dollars or less since new prius batteries around about 2500 for the end customer. If the company has a better deal with the manufacturer they might be able to get them for even cheaper like say 1200. That would mean at least 1500 dollars profit (3300[consumer money+recouped battery) - 1800[new battery]) minus miscellaneous expenses per year. With the lower price on new batteries plus interest from security deposits etc I would say the company would be looking at 100% return in their investments after 2 years given my price scale, however consumers might be willing to pay more for the added convenience of electricity on the go. My price scale is still far below gas and there is a lot of wiggle room.

thank you for the clarity.

I don't know if you're talking about the Prius plug-in hybrid, but it only has an electric range of about 20 miles, so I think you will need a bigger battery than that to base your pricing on.

The plan is already in the works. Some of the stumbling blocks are involve setting up standards for battery pack sizes and capacities. The most likely scheme would be a lease arrangement where the battery charging utility actually owns the battery pack and charges a monthly subscription fee plus a usage fee based on the kWh used to charge the batteries. The usage rates should be about what it would cost per mile in fuel costs driving a 30 to 40 mpg gasoline-fueled car.